Post by MargaretAnne on Sept 29, 2008 14:26:04 GMT -5
Transcribed from program K5375.
The Foundation of Human Understanding teaches an observation exercise often called meditation which permits you to become objective towards your problems and allows your heartaches, bad habits, fears and anxieties to be completely eliminated from your life without effort on your part. Until you’ve begun to practice this exercise, much of what you see and hear on the following program will be shocking and upsetting to you. But if you listen calmly and with an open mind, you may discover the key to the peace of mind and joy for which you’ve been searching all of your life. And now from the Foundation of Human Understanding, here is Roy Masters.
The Foundation of Human Understanding teaches an observation exercise often called meditation which permits you to become objective towards your problems and allows your heartaches, bad habits, fears and anxieties to be completely eliminated from your life without effort on your part. Until you’ve begun to practice this exercise, much of what you see and hear on the following program will be shocking and upsetting to you. But if you listen calmly and with an open mind, you may discover the key to the peace of mind and joy for which you’ve been searching all of your life. And now from the Foundation of Human Understanding, here is Roy Masters.
Roy: Yes. The number is--wait for it, 866-8883 and it’s an 800 number—9 to 11. This now a continuation of the live hour and we’re going to take our calls right away. Calls beget calls and it’s open line Friday and now we’re going to take Marius in San Diego. Hello, Marius.
Marius: Hi, Roy. It’s an honor to speak to you.
Roy: Thank you.
Marius: I listen to you all the time and your insight and advice has really become a part of my life. I appreciate it.
Roy: Good. I’m glad to be of service.
Marius: Um, I’ve had a problem with inner anxieties my whole life. I’ve just never—I’ve always never dealt with stress the correct way about—ah—I’m a normal person. I’ve had a normal life otherwise. I’m a civil engineer. About seven months ago, I developed a fear—subconsciously. It’s not a conscious fear I think about—of falling asleep. I start to drift off and I’m immediately woken up. Um—of course, I’ve gone to psychologists and psychiatrists and…
Roy: You’re wasting your money. I’ll do it for you free.
Marius: [Laughs] Yeah, I know I am. And the only reason, and I totally agree with you and I don’t put any value to their service—but only to get some anti-anxiety pills so that I can sleep.
Roy: Yuh. Yuh. Is that sleep—are you speaking about falling asleep on the job or falling asleep at night? Or is it both?
Marius: It’s just at night. I really have just kind of anxiety about sleep. I think about sleep a lot.
Roy: Okay, hold a second now. David, have you ever heard of this before?
David: Um, I have.
Roy: Have you…I thought I’d just pass it on to you for a second because I know what it is. I can give it to you in a few seconds…a few minutes but I’d like to see if you’ve ever heard of it and have ever answered this question before. Do you know the reason why--the simple reason why a person is afraid to go to sleep?
David: I think it’s because they fear loss of control of their mind.
Roy: Yeah--yeah. Okay. That’s one sign of it.
David: It’s interesting to note…
Roy: Can I just stop there a minute?
David: Yuh.
Roy: It’s actually—I’ll just finish the thought. They fear possession of their mind. Something will get to them in their sleep, if they're not on guard.
David: I’ve told you over the last year and a half…
Roy: What does he say? What does he say to that? Marius?
Marius: Um, I really—I mean actually sleep has always been kind of a comfort to me. One night, I wore a chin strap to stop snoring and I woke up in the middle of the night in a terrible panic where my heart was beating and very quickly.
Roy: Yeah, but that’s all the more reason. Well, you see when you find comfort in your sleep, you’re escaping into your sleep but you do not see what you’re escaping into. See—you do not now—once you find comfort in your sleep, two things will happen. You’ll sleep more and more and more, and one day you won’t wake up.
Marius: Right.
Roy: See?
David: Can I have a thought?
Roy: Ya, go ahead now. I’ve got some more to say but go ahead. Say what you were going to say.
David: Well, I just wanted to bring up though that I think it’s interesting that Andrew, my little boy Andrew, who is six years old has had me—you know—he has me take out his dreams.
Roy: Yes
David: And one night he said to me, “Dad, I don’t like to dream.” And I said, “Well, let’s just take them out.” He said, “You can do that?” I said, “Sure.” So I just pretended like I was pulling these thoughts out of his head.
Roy: But you were--you weren’t just pretending, you really were. If he believes you, it is.
David: Because he believed me. See, he believes that…
Roy: But that’s a living thing. That’s a living thing.
David: And so now…
[Phone is disconnected]
David: Whoops! He just hung up.
David: But now it’s gone to the next level and recently he asked me, “Dad, take out my dreams and put a cross on my forehead with your finger.
Roy: Wow!
David: And so what this little boy understands is he wants protection while he’s not in a waking state. He wants protection while he’s asleep.
Roy: Wow! That’s very good sleep.
David: And this was his idea. This was not my idea in any way, shape or form.
Roy: Absolutely—absolutely astonishing!
David: Yuh.
Roy: I’m not surprised. I’m astonished.
David: Yeah, but see this is exactly the opposite for the average person. As you said before, the average person—they live to be asleep—literally.
Roy: They’re actually asleep with their eyes wide open. No, the average person—not all, but all to some degree, to some degree that we’re under stress, we sleep more and moreso with our eyes wide open. And after awhile, we don’t know how to deal with what we deal with with our eyes wide open, so the only way we know how to deal with it is to dull one side of the equation. We get rid of our consciousness, see?
David: Hmm-hmm.
Roy: We stop being aware of what’s wrong with us and we’re okay with it for awhile.
David: And you know, I just want to add this thought which is, you know how strange--I mean after I saw the movie “The Matrix?”
Roy: Yeah.
David: I began to see that that kind of sleeping is sort of a neo-natal--it’s an adult neo-natal condition.
Roy: Well, that’s pretty bold. True, true.
David: In other words, it is a state that simulates what it was like before a person was actually born into a real world.
Roy: When you were asleep in your mother’s womb.
David: Exactly! Which is why the movie. “The Matrix” – I don’t even know if they even intended it, to have the meaning that it had, but to me it had all the meaning that you ever needed to help you understand, you know, what it was like before you awaken and see what the real world is about. Now then, when you wake up and you see the real world, then you have a choice about what you do with these problems that you encounter and that’s really where the problems begin.
Roy: Well, you can’t really have a choice until you search for it continually or kind of discover it yourself or discover it through someone showing you.
David: That’s right. But you have to have suffering. And, of course, you even yourself say, “As safe as a baby in its mother’s womb.” But that’s kind of the strangeness of the whole thing is that what people are actually looking for in psychotropic drugs, in sleep, in comfort—they’re looking for a form of safety.
Roy: Yeah, but then what—you’re claimed by what saves you because something rises in your sleep and this is what this man is afraid of.
David: Absolutely. It’s a false form of salvation.
Roy: See, he says he found comfort in it, but when he finds comfort in it, he goes deeper into it.
David: And so what happens is—then it’s like every other form of addiction, which is--it is a diminishing affect which means…
Roy: Hold a second—our caller’s back.
David: Does that make any sense?
Roy: Marius, did you hear what David was saying just now?
Marius: From what I heard for the last minute—yes, it does make sense and I think that—you know—my fear—it was sparked instantaneously really over a course of just a couple days and it’s lasted now for seven months.
Roy: But it was evolving to a point. It was evolving to a point where it shows disease. Cancer is evolving 20 years before it appears.
Marius: Yeah, the symptoms appear last, right?
Roy: Yeah, yeah. The symptoms appear last and the cause and affect and you never know and you keep struggling with them pushing it down and you may be able to manage for a little while but then after awhile you can’t anymore and wake up one morning and there it is. And then you struggle with it and make it worse and you struggle with it and you’re terrified. The struggle itself will kill you.
Marius: Yeah, the struggle was killing me. I actually went through two months of where I was very suicidal because I couldn’t sleep and I got out of that.
Roy: And I understand that. But then the lie comes up to you, if you kill yourself, you won’t have this pain anymore and that’s the lie you don’t want to fall for.
Marius: No, and I didn’t—through the grace of God--and be able to see past that point and letting go and letting God like you say, has been a huge part of at least getting back to the point that I can function somewhat and I’m back to work but…
Roy: But can you see, can I now give you the two basic principles that will make you well?
Marius: Yes, please.
Roy: Well, first of all, you do need to have faith but then you don’t know what it is. So I’m going to talk you through if I can—the way to it without you thinking that you have to find it and that you have to do something in order to get it. See?
Marius: Because that’s the way I feel right now.
Roy: I know but it doesn’t work that way. I would say to my wife—sometimes I’d say, “When I show you something that you’ve done wrong and you fight, you come back at me quickly. You’ve missed the moment. In other words, the fact that you’ve found out about something or you do something out of order—improper—to hurt somebody.”
Like, for example, my wife thinks that one of my daughter-in-laws is stingy and doesn’t bring things to the house when she comes on Sunday and so what she does, she “out-stingies” her, so when they come to my house, there’s not much food. I say, “Is there any food? What have you made for them because it’s not proper to not have food.” Ann said, “Well, we’ve got some leftovers, pieces of chicken.” I said, “But don’t you have any meat or something in the refrigerator?” Ann said, “No, it’s in the refrigerator.” So I said, “I’m going to go in the garage to see what’s there.” She stops me. There’s steaks in there and chickens in there and then suddenly, she starts to put—to um—to start cooking them. But there’s something sour about that.
So when my daughter-in-law came in, I said to her, “My wife doesn’t love you, see, because she...I had to cause her to feel ashamed for not having food on the table ready for you. She shows she doesn’t care for you and she probably thinks that you are that way towards her, so she’s outdoing you. She’s being more ungracious to you than she thinks you’re gracious to her. This is not right and I just want you to know about it.”
So they got outside and they talked about it and everything was alright. But that’s what she was doing. And so the thing is—um, but generally speaking, she may get past this one. But I’m not a person to keep my mouth closed when I see things happening because she was really doing that. See, she was outdoing the ungraciousness, she was more ungracious than she thought my daughter-in-law was. It was only creating a problem. She should be a better example as a grandmother than that, you see.
And I may have made that point but the point is that there is a place that you catch somebody at that and I don’t hold things back—ever. You do something wrong in front of people, you get it in front of people. I don’t care if you’re the King. All right? So there’s a point of where you cross over to the other side from hell to heaven. And that moment is when you stop and pause for a moment and feel the pain like screaming inside you.
Marius: I was screaming physically for at least a week.
Roy: Oh, yeah, that comes out. In your room, you can scream but there’s something inside that doesn’t want to hear that. And what happens is if you submit to that screaming and take umbrage with the screaming with whatever is screaming, and you turn and you do not accept the correction but you find fault with a person or blame somebody or try to change the conversation, if you miss that moment to try to make the other person feel uncomfortable for showing it to you—to give them the pain rather than keep the pain yourself, which is a good pain—then in that moment, you are defending the adversary inside you and going to war with your children, your husband, and your wife and the world and you will die.
Marius: And I was doing that and I’m not doing that currently but my problem persists and that’s the only reason why I’m calling.
Roy: I know but your problem persists only because you do not know how to forgive yourself because that means you’re not fully grounded in God. In other words, as you probably think you’re such a bad person that God won’t forgive you or something like that. Is that correct?
Marius: Yeah, I’m always finding I pray a lot all day long.
Roy: But God doesn’t answer your prayer. And he doesn’t answer your prayer—he will never answer that prayer until you stop in two places. First, you realize that you’re going over old ground and when it comes up, instead of seeing that you’re out of order…that’s what conflict’s all about. The conflict is you failed to deal with the stress properly which is temptation. The temptation—you’ve reacted to it angrily, that’s sin. It opens the door and it gets inside you and it’s there as unfinished business going round and round and round reliving itself and it won’t go away and let you get on with your life. And indeed, it shouldn’t go away and indeed, you shouldn’t get on with your life but you’d repress it so you’d get on with your life but when you get on with your life, you’re meeting more stress that will open the door, get inside and increase its power inside you to the point where you can’t function anymore and you start resenting it going to war with the spirit of the outside that’s now inside. But it’s in both places.
Marius: I believe that’s what happened to me.
Roy: But you’re struggling with it to save yourself and then you’re cursing the world—people because you’re actually now acting odd. You’re not doing your job properly.
Marius: Yeah, I wasn’t able to do anything and I’d get mad at my wife.
Roy: And then you get fired and then you get mad at the boss. See, everything looks colored and strange and upside down when you're in an emotional state and you’re governed by these forces and it’s all because of one thing, all because of just one thing. You will not sit still and look at the problem and stand back from it and feel the scream—primal scream. See, something is screaming, it wants you in that state. It consumes you in that state. It’s hell on earth—in every human being.
Marius: I’ve been dealing with it--yes.
Roy: Okay now. So I give you the same advice as I give my wife. What is faith is this. Faith is when you realize that you’re wrong. Ahh! Adam didn’t realize he was wrong because the first thing that came out of his mouth, “Eve made me do it!” That’s the worst thing he could have said. It’s worse than the sin itself. The sin isn’t so bad that you stole the cookies. What is really bad is you blame somebody else for it.
Marius: Right.
Roy: That’s really bad! That is so bad you’ll go on forever. The very first time you do that, it’ll go on forever till it kills you or you kill somebody. You see that?
Marius: Yuh, I do and I’ve gone through that stage of where...
Roy: No, you're still going through it.
Marius: ...I blame my wife and I blame the world, and I blame my parents...
Roy: There you go, there you go, there you go. There you are. When you blame—this is what happens when you blame and project it onto others. It means that you’re innocent. It means you’re blameless. It isn’t your fault. If it isn’t your fault, why would you need salvation. Simple.
Marius: True. That was part of it, yeah.
Roy: That’s all of it. What do you mean part of it? It’s all of it. It is the excuse, the blame. See now, so you can get better if you realize, “Oh, my God, I’m a liar. I’ve deceived myself. I made my problem other people’s.” Yes, other people created problems in you if you dealt with them properly—but who’s to know how to deal with things properly. We’re not to know when we come into the world how we’re corrupted and violated and all the rest of it. But sooner or later, we come to an impasse like you--everybody comes to--cancer—it could be anything. And so, this is the moment to say, “Now, why am I this way? I wasn’t born sick.” Some people are but you weren’t.
Marius: I had a lot of resentment for the problem of not being able to sleep and the hatred and the hatred towards myself.
Roy: But you’re heaping coals of fire on yourself.
Marius: Yes.
Roy: Because you're blaming, blaming, blaming because you don't want to be wrong. Even God has to be wrong. Now, come on now. It’s really arrogant, egotistical, insane. And so—all for what? But all you have to do is to stand back one day when you become conscious that you’re thinking about something in the wrong terms and it’s beginning to rise and you start to be angry with it and all of a sudden, something stops you and you look at it and you feel the pain of the separation from the…you’re actually separating yourself from the pleasure of being angry. Because anger is like an opiate, it clouds your mind to what is really happening to you underneath that. Hell is making a home in you. See that?
Marius: I do see that.
Roy: See, when you allow yourself to see, it screams, and it’s screaming, not you. So when you know it’s screaming, you know it isn’t you and it's writhing because the light is shining on it. If you just stand there and watch it and bear the pain which you richly deserve, it’s called repentance.
Marius: Yes, I’ve been going through that.
Roy: Well then, with that repentance comes God’s salvation. All of a sudden, a light goes on and one morning—one evening, you go through that, you’re willing to bear that pain, willing to and not resent it, because what you’re doing when you resent it, you’re resenting the light that’s showing it to you—see? Look at the subtlety here, got it?
Marius: Yeh, I do see it and I’m going through a transformation right now where—I’m going through the repentance and I’m going through actually seeing myself and the anger and seeing—you know—through the course of my whole life.
Roy: Of course.
Marius: And I think it's going to take time.
Roy: No, listen to me carefully. Do you trust what I say? Have you trusted, have I deceived you so far, or have I told you the truth?
Marius: No, I know that you speak the truth.
Roy: Okay. Sleep well tonight.
Marius: Okay.
Roy: All right. You will. You have nothing to fear. In other words, because He’s watching over you. Just get out of the God game, trying to save yourself, okay?
Marius: I will do that.
Roy: Be good.
Roy: All right. We’ll have another civil servant engineer back on his feet pretty soon, please God.
End of call.
Marius: Hi, Roy. It’s an honor to speak to you.
Roy: Thank you.
Marius: I listen to you all the time and your insight and advice has really become a part of my life. I appreciate it.
Roy: Good. I’m glad to be of service.
Marius: Um, I’ve had a problem with inner anxieties my whole life. I’ve just never—I’ve always never dealt with stress the correct way about—ah—I’m a normal person. I’ve had a normal life otherwise. I’m a civil engineer. About seven months ago, I developed a fear—subconsciously. It’s not a conscious fear I think about—of falling asleep. I start to drift off and I’m immediately woken up. Um—of course, I’ve gone to psychologists and psychiatrists and…
Roy: You’re wasting your money. I’ll do it for you free.
Marius: [Laughs] Yeah, I know I am. And the only reason, and I totally agree with you and I don’t put any value to their service—but only to get some anti-anxiety pills so that I can sleep.
Roy: Yuh. Yuh. Is that sleep—are you speaking about falling asleep on the job or falling asleep at night? Or is it both?
Marius: It’s just at night. I really have just kind of anxiety about sleep. I think about sleep a lot.
Roy: Okay, hold a second now. David, have you ever heard of this before?
David: Um, I have.
Roy: Have you…I thought I’d just pass it on to you for a second because I know what it is. I can give it to you in a few seconds…a few minutes but I’d like to see if you’ve ever heard of it and have ever answered this question before. Do you know the reason why--the simple reason why a person is afraid to go to sleep?
David: I think it’s because they fear loss of control of their mind.
Roy: Yeah--yeah. Okay. That’s one sign of it.
David: It’s interesting to note…
Roy: Can I just stop there a minute?
David: Yuh.
Roy: It’s actually—I’ll just finish the thought. They fear possession of their mind. Something will get to them in their sleep, if they're not on guard.
David: I’ve told you over the last year and a half…
Roy: What does he say? What does he say to that? Marius?
Marius: Um, I really—I mean actually sleep has always been kind of a comfort to me. One night, I wore a chin strap to stop snoring and I woke up in the middle of the night in a terrible panic where my heart was beating and very quickly.
Roy: Yeah, but that’s all the more reason. Well, you see when you find comfort in your sleep, you’re escaping into your sleep but you do not see what you’re escaping into. See—you do not now—once you find comfort in your sleep, two things will happen. You’ll sleep more and more and more, and one day you won’t wake up.
Marius: Right.
Roy: See?
David: Can I have a thought?
Roy: Ya, go ahead now. I’ve got some more to say but go ahead. Say what you were going to say.
David: Well, I just wanted to bring up though that I think it’s interesting that Andrew, my little boy Andrew, who is six years old has had me—you know—he has me take out his dreams.
Roy: Yes
David: And one night he said to me, “Dad, I don’t like to dream.” And I said, “Well, let’s just take them out.” He said, “You can do that?” I said, “Sure.” So I just pretended like I was pulling these thoughts out of his head.
Roy: But you were--you weren’t just pretending, you really were. If he believes you, it is.
David: Because he believed me. See, he believes that…
Roy: But that’s a living thing. That’s a living thing.
David: And so now…
[Phone is disconnected]
David: Whoops! He just hung up.
David: But now it’s gone to the next level and recently he asked me, “Dad, take out my dreams and put a cross on my forehead with your finger.
Roy: Wow!
David: And so what this little boy understands is he wants protection while he’s not in a waking state. He wants protection while he’s asleep.
Roy: Wow! That’s very good sleep.
David: And this was his idea. This was not my idea in any way, shape or form.
Roy: Absolutely—absolutely astonishing!
David: Yuh.
Roy: I’m not surprised. I’m astonished.
David: Yeah, but see this is exactly the opposite for the average person. As you said before, the average person—they live to be asleep—literally.
Roy: They’re actually asleep with their eyes wide open. No, the average person—not all, but all to some degree, to some degree that we’re under stress, we sleep more and moreso with our eyes wide open. And after awhile, we don’t know how to deal with what we deal with with our eyes wide open, so the only way we know how to deal with it is to dull one side of the equation. We get rid of our consciousness, see?
David: Hmm-hmm.
Roy: We stop being aware of what’s wrong with us and we’re okay with it for awhile.
David: And you know, I just want to add this thought which is, you know how strange--I mean after I saw the movie “The Matrix?”
Roy: Yeah.
David: I began to see that that kind of sleeping is sort of a neo-natal--it’s an adult neo-natal condition.
Roy: Well, that’s pretty bold. True, true.
David: In other words, it is a state that simulates what it was like before a person was actually born into a real world.
Roy: When you were asleep in your mother’s womb.
David: Exactly! Which is why the movie. “The Matrix” – I don’t even know if they even intended it, to have the meaning that it had, but to me it had all the meaning that you ever needed to help you understand, you know, what it was like before you awaken and see what the real world is about. Now then, when you wake up and you see the real world, then you have a choice about what you do with these problems that you encounter and that’s really where the problems begin.
Roy: Well, you can’t really have a choice until you search for it continually or kind of discover it yourself or discover it through someone showing you.
David: That’s right. But you have to have suffering. And, of course, you even yourself say, “As safe as a baby in its mother’s womb.” But that’s kind of the strangeness of the whole thing is that what people are actually looking for in psychotropic drugs, in sleep, in comfort—they’re looking for a form of safety.
Roy: Yeah, but then what—you’re claimed by what saves you because something rises in your sleep and this is what this man is afraid of.
David: Absolutely. It’s a false form of salvation.
Roy: See, he says he found comfort in it, but when he finds comfort in it, he goes deeper into it.
David: And so what happens is—then it’s like every other form of addiction, which is--it is a diminishing affect which means…
Roy: Hold a second—our caller’s back.
David: Does that make any sense?
Roy: Marius, did you hear what David was saying just now?
Marius: From what I heard for the last minute—yes, it does make sense and I think that—you know—my fear—it was sparked instantaneously really over a course of just a couple days and it’s lasted now for seven months.
Roy: But it was evolving to a point. It was evolving to a point where it shows disease. Cancer is evolving 20 years before it appears.
Marius: Yeah, the symptoms appear last, right?
Roy: Yeah, yeah. The symptoms appear last and the cause and affect and you never know and you keep struggling with them pushing it down and you may be able to manage for a little while but then after awhile you can’t anymore and wake up one morning and there it is. And then you struggle with it and make it worse and you struggle with it and you’re terrified. The struggle itself will kill you.
Marius: Yeah, the struggle was killing me. I actually went through two months of where I was very suicidal because I couldn’t sleep and I got out of that.
Roy: And I understand that. But then the lie comes up to you, if you kill yourself, you won’t have this pain anymore and that’s the lie you don’t want to fall for.
Marius: No, and I didn’t—through the grace of God--and be able to see past that point and letting go and letting God like you say, has been a huge part of at least getting back to the point that I can function somewhat and I’m back to work but…
Roy: But can you see, can I now give you the two basic principles that will make you well?
Marius: Yes, please.
Roy: Well, first of all, you do need to have faith but then you don’t know what it is. So I’m going to talk you through if I can—the way to it without you thinking that you have to find it and that you have to do something in order to get it. See?
Marius: Because that’s the way I feel right now.
Roy: I know but it doesn’t work that way. I would say to my wife—sometimes I’d say, “When I show you something that you’ve done wrong and you fight, you come back at me quickly. You’ve missed the moment. In other words, the fact that you’ve found out about something or you do something out of order—improper—to hurt somebody.”
Like, for example, my wife thinks that one of my daughter-in-laws is stingy and doesn’t bring things to the house when she comes on Sunday and so what she does, she “out-stingies” her, so when they come to my house, there’s not much food. I say, “Is there any food? What have you made for them because it’s not proper to not have food.” Ann said, “Well, we’ve got some leftovers, pieces of chicken.” I said, “But don’t you have any meat or something in the refrigerator?” Ann said, “No, it’s in the refrigerator.” So I said, “I’m going to go in the garage to see what’s there.” She stops me. There’s steaks in there and chickens in there and then suddenly, she starts to put—to um—to start cooking them. But there’s something sour about that.
So when my daughter-in-law came in, I said to her, “My wife doesn’t love you, see, because she...I had to cause her to feel ashamed for not having food on the table ready for you. She shows she doesn’t care for you and she probably thinks that you are that way towards her, so she’s outdoing you. She’s being more ungracious to you than she thinks you’re gracious to her. This is not right and I just want you to know about it.”
So they got outside and they talked about it and everything was alright. But that’s what she was doing. And so the thing is—um, but generally speaking, she may get past this one. But I’m not a person to keep my mouth closed when I see things happening because she was really doing that. See, she was outdoing the ungraciousness, she was more ungracious than she thought my daughter-in-law was. It was only creating a problem. She should be a better example as a grandmother than that, you see.
And I may have made that point but the point is that there is a place that you catch somebody at that and I don’t hold things back—ever. You do something wrong in front of people, you get it in front of people. I don’t care if you’re the King. All right? So there’s a point of where you cross over to the other side from hell to heaven. And that moment is when you stop and pause for a moment and feel the pain like screaming inside you.
Marius: I was screaming physically for at least a week.
Roy: Oh, yeah, that comes out. In your room, you can scream but there’s something inside that doesn’t want to hear that. And what happens is if you submit to that screaming and take umbrage with the screaming with whatever is screaming, and you turn and you do not accept the correction but you find fault with a person or blame somebody or try to change the conversation, if you miss that moment to try to make the other person feel uncomfortable for showing it to you—to give them the pain rather than keep the pain yourself, which is a good pain—then in that moment, you are defending the adversary inside you and going to war with your children, your husband, and your wife and the world and you will die.
Marius: And I was doing that and I’m not doing that currently but my problem persists and that’s the only reason why I’m calling.
Roy: I know but your problem persists only because you do not know how to forgive yourself because that means you’re not fully grounded in God. In other words, as you probably think you’re such a bad person that God won’t forgive you or something like that. Is that correct?
Marius: Yeah, I’m always finding I pray a lot all day long.
Roy: But God doesn’t answer your prayer. And he doesn’t answer your prayer—he will never answer that prayer until you stop in two places. First, you realize that you’re going over old ground and when it comes up, instead of seeing that you’re out of order…that’s what conflict’s all about. The conflict is you failed to deal with the stress properly which is temptation. The temptation—you’ve reacted to it angrily, that’s sin. It opens the door and it gets inside you and it’s there as unfinished business going round and round and round reliving itself and it won’t go away and let you get on with your life. And indeed, it shouldn’t go away and indeed, you shouldn’t get on with your life but you’d repress it so you’d get on with your life but when you get on with your life, you’re meeting more stress that will open the door, get inside and increase its power inside you to the point where you can’t function anymore and you start resenting it going to war with the spirit of the outside that’s now inside. But it’s in both places.
Marius: I believe that’s what happened to me.
Roy: But you’re struggling with it to save yourself and then you’re cursing the world—people because you’re actually now acting odd. You’re not doing your job properly.
Marius: Yeah, I wasn’t able to do anything and I’d get mad at my wife.
Roy: And then you get fired and then you get mad at the boss. See, everything looks colored and strange and upside down when you're in an emotional state and you’re governed by these forces and it’s all because of one thing, all because of just one thing. You will not sit still and look at the problem and stand back from it and feel the scream—primal scream. See, something is screaming, it wants you in that state. It consumes you in that state. It’s hell on earth—in every human being.
Marius: I’ve been dealing with it--yes.
Roy: Okay now. So I give you the same advice as I give my wife. What is faith is this. Faith is when you realize that you’re wrong. Ahh! Adam didn’t realize he was wrong because the first thing that came out of his mouth, “Eve made me do it!” That’s the worst thing he could have said. It’s worse than the sin itself. The sin isn’t so bad that you stole the cookies. What is really bad is you blame somebody else for it.
Marius: Right.
Roy: That’s really bad! That is so bad you’ll go on forever. The very first time you do that, it’ll go on forever till it kills you or you kill somebody. You see that?
Marius: Yuh, I do and I’ve gone through that stage of where...
Roy: No, you're still going through it.
Marius: ...I blame my wife and I blame the world, and I blame my parents...
Roy: There you go, there you go, there you go. There you are. When you blame—this is what happens when you blame and project it onto others. It means that you’re innocent. It means you’re blameless. It isn’t your fault. If it isn’t your fault, why would you need salvation. Simple.
Marius: True. That was part of it, yeah.
Roy: That’s all of it. What do you mean part of it? It’s all of it. It is the excuse, the blame. See now, so you can get better if you realize, “Oh, my God, I’m a liar. I’ve deceived myself. I made my problem other people’s.” Yes, other people created problems in you if you dealt with them properly—but who’s to know how to deal with things properly. We’re not to know when we come into the world how we’re corrupted and violated and all the rest of it. But sooner or later, we come to an impasse like you--everybody comes to--cancer—it could be anything. And so, this is the moment to say, “Now, why am I this way? I wasn’t born sick.” Some people are but you weren’t.
Marius: I had a lot of resentment for the problem of not being able to sleep and the hatred and the hatred towards myself.
Roy: But you’re heaping coals of fire on yourself.
Marius: Yes.
Roy: Because you're blaming, blaming, blaming because you don't want to be wrong. Even God has to be wrong. Now, come on now. It’s really arrogant, egotistical, insane. And so—all for what? But all you have to do is to stand back one day when you become conscious that you’re thinking about something in the wrong terms and it’s beginning to rise and you start to be angry with it and all of a sudden, something stops you and you look at it and you feel the pain of the separation from the…you’re actually separating yourself from the pleasure of being angry. Because anger is like an opiate, it clouds your mind to what is really happening to you underneath that. Hell is making a home in you. See that?
Marius: I do see that.
Roy: See, when you allow yourself to see, it screams, and it’s screaming, not you. So when you know it’s screaming, you know it isn’t you and it's writhing because the light is shining on it. If you just stand there and watch it and bear the pain which you richly deserve, it’s called repentance.
Marius: Yes, I’ve been going through that.
Roy: Well then, with that repentance comes God’s salvation. All of a sudden, a light goes on and one morning—one evening, you go through that, you’re willing to bear that pain, willing to and not resent it, because what you’re doing when you resent it, you’re resenting the light that’s showing it to you—see? Look at the subtlety here, got it?
Marius: Yeh, I do see it and I’m going through a transformation right now where—I’m going through the repentance and I’m going through actually seeing myself and the anger and seeing—you know—through the course of my whole life.
Roy: Of course.
Marius: And I think it's going to take time.
Roy: No, listen to me carefully. Do you trust what I say? Have you trusted, have I deceived you so far, or have I told you the truth?
Marius: No, I know that you speak the truth.
Roy: Okay. Sleep well tonight.
Marius: Okay.
Roy: All right. You will. You have nothing to fear. In other words, because He’s watching over you. Just get out of the God game, trying to save yourself, okay?
Marius: I will do that.
Roy: Be good.
Roy: All right. We’ll have another civil servant engineer back on his feet pretty soon, please God.
End of call.
